Curse

HawkofStorms · Nov 20, 2008, 01:25 AM // 01:25

I think many of the people on these forums don't understand the point of a money sink.

Chthon · Nov 20, 2008, 04:00 AM // 04:00

I have to cast my vote with those who think the summoning stones are just way too expensive for what you get. They definitely aren't going to become part of the way I normally play the game in their current incarnation.

(Mind you, I'm not saying that they're too expensive in the absolute -- I've got enough materials lying around for a pretty good number of turtles, juggers, and whatever else -- but they simply aren't anywhere close to worth their cost.)

If you want me to use them all the time, make the cost less than the farming value of the time they cut off whatever task I use them for.
If you want me to use them now and then, make the cost greater than the farming value of the time they save, but less than the value of the loot + reward if I succeed in my task.
If you want me to use them only occasionally, make the cost so high that I have to do several zones to recoup the cost of one stone.
And, if you want me to never, ever use them except to go "oh look, a turtle!" make them require an hour or two of farming to pay for a half-hour summon. That's about how they're priced right now.

Now, I'm assuming that these were **meant** to get incorporated into the way people normally play the game. Since they've failed in that respect, at least for me, I'd like to suggest a few possible alternative fixes:

1. Everlasting Summoning Stones. Yeah, this has been suggested before. But I bring it up again because it would work. I'm balking at paying 1 skill pt + 10 granite + 25 scales + 5 jade + 2 monstrous eyes + 1k for a single-use turtle, but I'd gladly fork over 10 or 20 or even 50 times that much for an everlasting turtle. (Yes, I'm aware that would defeat the use of summoning stones as a permanent money sink, but that may well be the cost of making them a truly meaningful feature.)

2. Retention Chance. Add a retention chance similar to the way lockpicks work. At the current prices, I think a retention chance that scaled from 75% to 95% along with the stone's associated title would be enough to get me to invest in a stack of them and use them on a quasi-regular basis. (Also, to make them a little more dungeon-friendly, allow the summons to last from zone to zone so long as they survive.)

3. Skill-Encouraging Rework. Change the application of summoning sickness from 60 minutes for the person who uses a stone to 30 minutes for the whole party whenever a summon dies (not including expiration from old age). Change summoning stones so that they are reusable by default, but are consumed if used under summoning sickness. The motivating policy would be to encourage more skillful play so that you can keep your summons alive.

4. Ten for the Price of One. Since the current prices would be hard to reduce without cutting some of the ingredients altogether, increase the payout by making summoning stones come in stacks of 10. At that price, I'd at least consider buying them.

As a final consideration, the price differences between the different types of stones is going to be a problem if they ever really catch on and demand goes up. Spirit wood can be crafted; monstrous eyes cannot. In fact, as far as I know, monstrous eyes don't even have a reliable farming spot. If demand ever really picks up, turtles are going to become MUCH more expensive then juggers. (Forget about jade and amber -- they've become easy farms.) Thanks to Callista Sedgewick, kveldwolfs don't have any ingredients that aren't a very, very easy farm; which, if high demand really happens, will make them far cheaper than any other summon. While devourers cost FOUR monstrous eyes, which means they'll never get purchased when a turtle costs two.

Alleji · Nov 20, 2008, 05:55 AM // 05:55

I think a better idea would be to make them cost a substantial amount of money, but not too much... 50k + 50 jade or something, have unlimited uses and have a 1-day cooldown.

Well, actually I think 1-day cooldown is needed either way. This isn't ursan, but more consumables dumbing down the game is always bad.

Nightow · Nov 20, 2008, 07:00 AM // 07:00

I see them as being a hell of a lot more useful than those tonics.

Someone should go and kindly ask Linsey to make them everlasting.

Scary · Nov 20, 2008, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

I think a better idea would be to make them cost a substantial amount of money, but not too much... 50k + 50 jade or something, have unlimited uses and have a 1-day cooldown.

Well, actually I think 1-day cooldown is needed either way. This isn't ursan, but more consumables dumbing down the game is always bad.

Afraid of a consumable in a party

Men there can be just 1 con be activated at the same time, ok so when 8
people take each a stone then you have for 4 hours a Juggernout, Ooze,
Turtle or what ever. But still 1 at the same time.

And again with so many other things, if you dont like it...dont use it.

Its a fun extra and many players like to farm materials just for the stones.
So, if it gives players a new goal to spend time in GuildWars than its just ok.

Aussie Boy · Nov 20, 2008, 12:53 PM // 12:53

I like them there something fun to play with and thats the point to keep some of our interest I guess till GW2.
Now I vote for a Hero Summoning Stone for 60min and cooldown time 30 min or 60min an extra hero on top of your max hero's could be fun.

FrAnt1c² · Nov 20, 2008, 01:01 PM // 13:01

If you summon one, it should appear in your party window as an ally, makes it easier to heal it...

Riot Narita · Nov 20, 2008, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Chitenous Summoning Stone (devourer) is overpowered.

It has an IAS + blocking stance. It stays close to you, out of trouble if you're a caster or ranged attacker, always in range of shouts, chants and wards. It has a self heal. It inflicts poison and bleeding. It has Forked Arrow and Volley - just add Battle Standard of Honor/Splinter Weapon/Great Dwarf Weapon for SICK DAMAGE.

Insta-win in those pesky 4-man HM missions!

viper11025 · Nov 20, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

We have a winner. Don't be too ticked there isn't perminant versions of these things. I think one day there will be.

Yeah money sink now, good investment later? GG Arenanet.

Issac · Nov 20, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Never really messed with them lol, but permanent one's would be awesome.

aapo · Nov 20, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Truth is stranger than fiction. I was selling the Gaki stone from Urgoz Warren in Kamadan for 3k. This player seemed really eager to buy it and went to get money from other characters. When I finally opened trade with him, he looked at it for a minute, then cancelled.

THESE PIECES OF **** ARE ****ING USELESS! What business ANET has designing something like this? Do I spend three hours on boring dungeon earning shit that isn't worth 200g? Hey ANET, if you're so against power creep by putting restrictions like Double-click to summon a Gaki ally of your level that lasts for 30 minutes or until slain in combat. Summoning stones can only be activated once every 60 minutes per character, and only one summoned ally from a summoning stone can be present in an instance at a time. This item can only be used in explorable areas. Only gotten at the quantity of 1 from the deepest bowels of the most inaccessible dungeon, why design this in the first place???

HawkofStorms · Nov 20, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

Truth is stranger than fiction. I was selling the Gaki stone from Urgoz Warren in Kamadan for 3k. This player seemed really eager to buy it and went to get money from other characters. When I finally opened trade with him, he looked at it for a minute, then cancelled.

THESE PIECES OF **** ARE ****ING USELESS! What business ANET has designing something like this? Do I spend three hours on boring dungeon earning shit that isn't worth 200g? Hey ANET, if you're so against power creep by putting restrictions like Double-click to summon a Gaki ally of your level that lasts for 30 minutes or until slain in combat. Summoning stones can only be activated once every 60 minutes per character, and only one summoned ally from a summoning stone can be present in an instance at a time. This item can only be used in explorable areas. Only gotten at the quantity of 1 from the deepest bowels of the most inaccessible dungeon, why design this in the first place???

You could just... use it. Rather then trying to turn everything into a profit cash benefit anaylsis.

IlikeGW · Nov 20, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

I would use them if they were infinite. Raise the cost to make them and give them an insane cool down (a few hours) and I'd use them but I can't afford to pay a few platinum every 30mins (or till they die) and I refuse to waste time I could spend having fun by farming for the next summon.

If they make an infinite it would of course be in the lame-o zaishen chest and cost 250 ecto, so it's probably better you don't ask for it. Then gold buyers would literally finally be getting a good advantage in the game.

aapo · Nov 20, 2008, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

You could just... use it. Rather then trying to turn everything into a profit cash benefit anaylsis.

- I'm certain you know that majority of cash funds in GW economy come from selling weapon and salvage item drops to merchant, not from using these items for their intended purpose. You could get 100 gold drop occasionally, but that chips into 12g on your purse. These items have no value, the only saving grace for them is the kind NPC merchant which takes them at some pre-defined price. Time spend picking up this trash accumulates wealth, which is then used for buying desired items, like the latest additions to game.

The point is, when I open the Urgoz chest, I'm picking up same trash as I picked up all the way to last chamber. If the game designer had half a brain, he'd rather avoid the situation where the player is seriously considering to skip the no-merchant-value "reward" of the dungeon to use the last inventory slot in favor of another 75g white trash weapon. If the latest addition is generally not even worth bothering, as confirmed by my futile selling attemps, then what is? What breaths life to old areas and makes the gameplay feel rewarding? People spend millions for the most tedious ale-clicking title, because once you're done with it, it stays with you. Same thing for farming weapons and armor. I ask 3k for this "high-end" treasure and folks in the streets of Kamadan laugh at me. Mission failed, ANET.

Parson Brown · Nov 21, 2008, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

-
The point is, when I open the Urgoz chest, I'm picking up same trash as I picked up all the way to last chamber. If the game designer had half a brain, he'd rather avoid the situation where the player is seriously considering to skip the no-merchant-value "reward" of the dungeon to use the last inventory slot in favor of another 75g white trash weapon.

The first time I finished the Deep after the update, I saw someone pop his Oni as soon as he picked it up. Yes, after the mission was over. I didn't understand why then, but I do now.

Basically, they're worthless to sell, but somewhat fun to use. I'd never buy one, but I save them for fun while vanquishing or whatnot. And I suppose that's all they are meant to be.

Koning · Nov 21, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrAnt1c²

If you summon one, it should appear in your party window as an ally, makes it easier to heal it...

That would be great ye

I was thinking of something like that too, but let's not make this game TOO easy

Daesu · Nov 21, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

I have never ever used a summoning stone, I still have my full 160 of the Golem stones which would probably get more rare as time goes by. Do they disappear when you zone?

I would probably never craft one since traditional consummables are already good enough in the toughest areas in the game (and I almost never use one).

Also it is too expensive for a 1 time limited time use and 1 hour cool down. Sure, it is a cool new thing but it is alot more expensive than a full conset!

Yang Whirlwind · Nov 21, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Yet another way to make the game even easier. Bah humbug.

You are obviously to 1337 to need any help. Remember; if things get too easy, you can always go vanquishing, solo, wearing nothing but ego and boxers,- that should give even you a challenge!

Meanwhile, people who either want faster vanquishing or actually need the extra help because they are fairly new to the game, have that extra option.
Personally, I think that is nice.

Mr. Undisclosed · Nov 21, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

Truth is stranger than fiction. I was selling the Gaki stone from Urgoz Warren in Kamadan for 3k. This player seemed really eager to buy it and went to get money from other characters. When I finally opened trade with him, he looked at it for a minute, then cancelled.

THESE PIECES OF **** ARE ****ING USELESS! What business ANET has designing something like this? Do I spend three hours on boring dungeon earning shit that isn't worth 200g? Hey ANET, if you're so against power creep by putting restrictions like Double-click to summon a Gaki ally of your level that lasts for 30 minutes or until slain in combat. Summoning stones can only be activated once every 60 minutes per character, and only one summoned ally from a summoning stone can be present in an instance at a time. This item can only be used in explorable areas. Only gotten at the quantity of 1 from the deepest bowels of the most inaccessible dungeon, why design this in the first place???

Did anyone else find it funny he spent 3 hours in Urgoz?

Anyway, I like them. Somewhat helpful in certain situations (The gaki one at least). Would be better if they lasted 60 minutes so when your stone's time was up so is your summoning sickness.

Dunno why anyone thought they'd be unlimited too. Even a few people in the guild thought they were to my amazement.

Arkantos · Nov 21, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

You are obviously to 1337 to need any help. Remember; if things get too easy, you can always go vanquishing, solo, wearing nothing but ego and boxers,- that should give even you a challenge!

There's a difference between challenge and handicapping yourself to create challenge. The latter is stupid. It's like playing Guild Wars with one hand - it creates more of a challenge, but what the hell is the point when everyone is playing with 2?

A game should be naturally challenging, you should not have to handicap yourself to create the challenge.